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HEFNER: Did you come back to LBL [Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory]?
GOFMAN: Building 90 for those four or five of those six months.
HEFNER: How did the rest of the community treat you-say, the old scientists and the regents?
GOFMAN: I never brought it up with the regents. I think I made a mistake not to bring it up with the academic senate and the regents. I think I would have gotten a very fair hearing from them. I don't know why I didn't do that. LBL, I have a lot of friends at LBL. Ed McMillan and I did not end up friendly. Ernest Lawrence and I were very good friends.

But Ed was angry with me because in the days when Charlie Schwartz was raising all kinds of hell, during that whole thing about the university reconstitution, they wanted to hold an outdoor rally and speech at LBL on the hill. Charlie invited me. I said, "Sure, I'll talk." Ed called and said, "You can't talk." I said, "Ed, you're just behaving like an ass, I'm going to talk." He said, "you just shouldn't. I forbid it." I said, "It doesn't matter." I did talk, but we never got past that. I like his wife, Elsie.
HEFNER: Why did Dr. McMillan say that? That's pretty contrary to his own politics?
GOFMAN: I don't know; I honestly don't know. I couldn't believe Edward McMillan. I knew him quite well. I just couldn't believe Ed McMillan was telling me that. John Lawrence cooled off considerably toward me.
HEFNER: He took a turn to the right during the free speech movement.
GOFMAN: Yes. John never was outright unfriendly to me after the controversy, but he was cool.
HEFNER: How about Hardin Jones?
GOFMAN: We stayed friends. I didn't see Hardin too much. He didn't agree-
HEFNER: He also took a turn to the right.
GOFMAN: Yes. Hardin was so wrong on some of those drug things. We were quite friendly to the end. I've seen Helen since then. [Andrew] Tobias and I were never very close. Tobias tends to be defensive of the atomic energy [establishment]: "It never hurt anybody." Tobias's coworkers like Graime Welch is a great admirer of my work. The Donner people, of course, are good friends of mine.
HEFNER: Eleanor Blakley?
GOFMAN: I don't know her. Alex Nichols is a very close friend of mine. I don't know how many people on the hill-I don't think that most of them even know about the controversial years, do you?
HEFNER: Yes, you think they do? By all means.
GOFMAN: Really?
HEFNER: Everybody knows.
GOFMAN: I didn't know that.
GOURLEY: Back at Headquarters even, there's boxes and boxes of stuff.
HEFNER: Oh, yeah.
GOFMAN: Oh really?
HEFNER: It's a ton of written stuff.
GOURLEY: I have with me the memorandum when they were evaluating your chromosome program.
GOFMAN: They sent it out to their committee that [conducted the] evaluat[ion]. They also had an Inspector General's report on whether we were harassed. Did you know about that?
GOFMAN: The Inspector General of the AEC said he could find no evidence of harassment.

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